Discussions

Note: To post to the discussions, you must register. If you already have a WordPress.org or .com account, it will NOT work here. You must create a new account.

Please familiarize yourself with the Community Standards and Participation Guidelines prior to posting or commenting. Offensive posts and people are subject to removal at the discretion of the moderators. We appreciate thoughtful discussions!

New posts No new posts – Mark All Read

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
Candol
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 717
Permalink
Post Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 24, 2012, 06:35
Quote

If so what is it? I am dubious that there can be such a state but that's maybe because i don't understand what it is.

Mark-
Knickelbin-
e
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 289
Permalink
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 25, 2012, 13:37
Quote

Candol, Gotama explains the unconditioned in several suttas, for example this from Samyutta Nikaya IV 359:

"And what, monks, is the unconditioned? The destruction of greed, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: This is called the unconditioned.

"And what, monks, is the path leading to the unconditioned? Mindfulness, directed to the body: this is called the path leading to the unconditioned."

So "unconditioned" means unconditioned by the Three Fires of greed, hatred and delusion. It is not, in this usage, some extranormal, eternal state of bliss, and it isn't God. When you are practicing mindfulnes and experiencing a body/mind less driven by grasping and aversion, you're in touch with the unconditioned.
Linda
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 317
Permalink
Linda
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 25, 2012, 19:45
Quote

Greed and hatred are (as I think Mark is suggesting above) attraction and aversion in different attire. And delusion is the ignorance we all labor under. The three, together, say again to me what DA says: our ignorance (and our ignorance of our ignorance) are the root problem and they manifest as "I like it" vs "I don't like it". "Conditions" are what DA is all about, "the unconditioned" is a description of how we behave when the DA process is not to-the-fore.

Do I "believe" in it? I know that I have unconditioned moments -- though not nearly enough of them. Belief isn't an issue unless the question is whether there is a permanent state that is "unconditioned" in which case my answer is the same as for God or rebirth -- I don't know, so I can't say. In which case, for me, belief doesn't enter into it that way, either.

Linda Blanchard
Buddhist History/Pali Nerd
Candol
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 717
Permalink
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 26, 2012, 06:06
Quote

Right, i've got it now. I think i had got it mixed up with DA.

So now i see that the term 'unconditioned" is just one of those annoying terms that is a not the common term. If the guy who mentioned it in my group had simply said enlightenment, i would have known what he was talking about. I have no problem with enlightenment meaning beyond greed aversion and delusion or attraction and aversion and ignorance. What ever.

I just got confused by the term unconditioned. And with the whole DA thinking round and round, i thought no one really breaks out of that cycle, to know what the unconditioned might be.

Oh well if someone thinks they might have got there, good for them. Now i know what it means i won't be bothered by it anymore.

Mark-
Knickelbin-
e
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 289
Permalink
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 26, 2012, 12:52
Quote

It's best not to be bothered by any of the Buddhist lingo -- if it helps, great; if not, it's not really necessary to the essence of practice, which is beyond language anyway. And it's easy to be confused by that particular term, because many traditionalist Buddhists do equate "The Unconditioned" with some supernormal state, even though they are often reluctant to admit it.

InOut
Grasshopper
Posts: 1
Permalink
InOut
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 27, 2012, 07:11
Quote

I'm a neophyte, so I may not know what I'm talking about, but I find that concentration helps me in my all-day mindfulness, which helps lessen greed, hatred, and delusion.
Mark-
Knickelbin-
e
Noone Going Nowhere
Posts: 289
Permalink
Post Re: Do you believe in the unconditioned?
on: June 27, 2012, 12:46
Quote

InOut, sounds to me like you know everything you need to!
Pages: [1]
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.34 ; Page loaded in: 0.12 seconds.
Submit to reddit