Discussions

Someone in my group last night has restless leg syndrome. The poor car can't really keep his legs still. He is an older guy and has parkinsons. I think he thinks his leg agitation is related to his parkinsons but i'm not sure about that. It could be or it could also be a side effect of medication. Anyway i wonder what advice would anyone give to a meditator who has this condition.

Should they try to resist moving their legs. Or should they just do whatever they have to. I suggested that he might try resisting a little but not forcing himself to not move at all. I doubt he could even if he wanted to.

If you've ever had restless leg syndrome, you'll know how awful it is and how strong the impulse to move would be.

I wonder would be the right/best advice.

Unfortunately its a little disturbing for everyone else in the room too as his socks rubbing frequently on the carpet make a bit of noise. However i think it is something we can put up with easily enough and i wouldn't suggest he not move for our sakes.

Thanks Dana. I wondered about sitting on a bike too but that wouldn't work in our group meditation. Also he'd probably fall off it. I think we will all just have to learn to be equanimous with it. Sort of like Stephen B had to put up with the loud ticking clock in the korean monastery. Anyway I think its not as bad as snoring. I could try asking him to take his socks of.

When he's meditating at home, he's only doing it for a short periods so i think he can cope with that.

He's been sitting in a chair. I wondered if sitting on the floor leaning up against the wall would be any better. We don't have any proper cushions so he can't do that at this point.

Do you think he should stick with short periods of meditation. How long? I suggested only 10 minutes to start with since he's such a busy guy i thought a small time period would be good to help establish the daily habit.

What do you think the right sort of time period might be ultimately for someone like him. Not forgetting he's 78.

Candol- I'm a massage therapist and have run into restless leg syndrom myself while receiving massage and have had numerous clients that get it also. I'll go over a couple things that have worked for me.

1.This is going to sound very strange considering I'm an Atheist but what works for me is Reiki, well not exactly Reiki becasue I have no formal training in it but what I do works for people and myself. Have him lay on his back, if needed put a pillow under the knees to reduce back pain. Place one hand on his opposite hip from the leg that is bothering him and the other hand on his ankel on the leg that is bothering him. From there focus on "balancing the energy" and use moderate pressure, ask for what feels comfortable. For a sceintific rational some say it works based off piezoelectricity.
2. Using a form of Thai massage right beofore he starts. Again have him lay on his back and use a pillows as needed. Use firm compressions starting at the inner ankels and work up both legs to the hips. Then move one side and do the same this time on the outer part of the leg, then swap legs. See a you tube thai massage video for an example.

3. This is more for him to do but involves contracting and relaxing the various muscles in the legs without movement. Basically isometric contractions. This is harder and requires more focus then he might want to put on this while trying to practice but it might work.

4. Others things to be aware of, it could be related to Diabeties or another underlying neurological condition. Being Iron deficient can also lead to it. His Doctor would be the best to help him address those concerns.

5. If nothing works, then a version of moving meditation may be needed.

These may only work for a short amount off time, everybody is different. Hope it helps.

I know when I get it it sucks and I can't concentrate on anything until I get it to go away.

I guess that I am too naive to suggest anything.

My very naive take is that the easiest way
to make such noise less obvious is to use
external sound like a "Drone" they use in Ragas?
Or a repeating music pattern that goes around and around
and in that way become a kind of "listeting to the breath"

A kind of "mandala or mantra" the music is the mantra
that you return to when "chattering" thoughts disrupt.

Maybe Buddhist meditation is so particular that it
can not adopt to such helpful means?

I sat for three years in "silent meditation" and it
where so silent that even the "purr" in our stomach
where like roaring waterfalls or like waves of the ocean
or like thunder and lightening disturbing the "Silence".

One easily solve such noise by having an external source
of sound that is pleasant to listen to and that goes on and on.

And walking is demanding in that one need to be able to
walk in line and keep pace path with the others.

Dancing often are rule based what one are supposed to do
what moves that are seen as okay and what is not okay.

Such can maybe be done using another word for the dance.
Meditative Dancing where one instruct those that want to
meditate that way to move in ways that their body feels
at home with doing.

The old man and the old woman can hold on to a stead chair
that allow them to move and catch themselves if falling.
so they could "dance" on one spot and not move around too wildly.

There are always solutions if one really want them to emerge?

Buddhist sometimes come through to me as extremely fundy about
being rule based to the extreme. Sitting on floor despite a chair
is more healthy for the body.

Candol, I trust that in that situation
you have to decide what works for you.

I tried to share what I saw as possible
skilful means to find other ways to do it.

My take is a bit like being one violin in
the Big orchestra. You have the Director
and you have your sheet with the notes on
and you have the instrument to play on and
you have your fellow musicians and you have
the wind section blasting your ears off and
you have the noises from the audience and
even maybe TV Cameras and how it feels to sit
and the shoes and the loved one at home and
the traffic jam and a lot of things going on.

Should it not still be possible to be mindful
of all this and to let go of those reactive
emotional feelings that comes up and to concentrate
on the interpretation and give it your best?

Wy at all would one need total silence unless
maybe one are a total beginner and not able
to concentrate unless it is dead silence?

Maybe I am way off base here. But that where
the impression I got from reading Alan Watts
way back in 1962 that he painted that a Zen
Master can be actively present here and now
in any situation. Seeing life as it really is
without having to exclude or wish something
to not happen there,

the noise from his uncontrollable feet is
like when the Zen Master sneak up behind
and tap you on your shoulder. If you get
out of meditation then you have to learn
how to be there and not somewhere else.

I fail even to be concentrated for a few seconds
but I only retell what people have told me
about what meditation is. To see the world
as it really is. His foot scraping is part of it all.